Alleged incident at hotel on Sunday night

[stevoswan]

As I suggested in a post last night, the Swans are finished. Not just this year, but for at least a the next 10 years. The Swans are the new Essendon.

The 5 suspended players will have to leave the club to allow the club to rebuild. The club will no longer be a destination club, but rather a club that players will want to leave. Memberships will be dropping year after year.

Dean Cox might as well resign as well. He is all bust finished. Life as a coach will not be easy for him.

My interest in the Swans will never be the same. I will follow the Swans like rubberneckers who can't look away from a car crash.

Seriously, WTF? Not one of your most sensible posts Ludwig. Have a lie down.

[crackedactor 01]

I'm sorry mate but what a rather silly reaction to this whole situation. Withdraw to give someone else a chance? WTF? We already have the stupid wildcard round for that!

So you want to fracture the club forever by punishing the entire playing group by denying them the right to represent their club in the finals? OK then (*shakes head*).


Anyway, back to reality. The clubs decision is what a genuinely responsible club does, so I'm proud of them for that.

Having said that, I suppose a massive over reaction is better than an inappropriate response that falls short of public expectation.

It seems all five players are paying for the actions of one. Sure sanction all of them for 'bringing the game into disrepute' if indeed staying out late and drinking fits that description.....maybe two games for that but the rest of the season seems to be one of those 'seen to be doing the right thing' decisions that the club may come to regret. Possibly bye bye Chad, maybe others.

For the player that actually did the inappropriate touching, bye bye definitely......sanction him permanently (for another club to pick him up under the guise of 'people deserve redemption' when things blow over, thereby benefitting from our loss but hey, at least our reputation will be intact even though our club may be in tatters).

All in all, an extremely disappointing and regretful period in the Swans history that the five players involved will regret forever and where they should rightly have their intelligence and integrity deeply questioned.....and that has long time fans like me truly shaking and scratching their heads in utter disbelief.

Seriously lads, WTF?

So who benefits if we get beaten by 20 goals?? I rather see no Swans team in the finals but at least see a close hard fought match.

[mcs]

So who benefits if we get beaten by 20 goals?? I rather see no Swans team in the finals but at least see a close hard fought match.

My reckless prediction - we will win a final and make a prelim. We are missing proven game breakers, but it is not like the rest of them are absolute hacks or something. Human psychology is weird and siege mentalities - which the players will need as they will be hounded (despite doing zero wrong) can bring out the best when sometimes you'd expect it to lead to the worse.

I give us effectively zero chance of the flag, but I think there is enough quality still there to win a final - probably a week 2 elimination final.

Equally they could completely fall in a hole - which would be the more likely outcomes.

[mcs]

As I suggested in a post last night, the Swans are finished. Not just this year, but for at least a the next 10 years. The Swans are the new Essendon.

The 5 suspended players will have to leave the club to allow the club to rebuild. The club will no longer be a destination club, but rather a club that players will want to leave. Memberships will be dropping year after year.

Dean Cox might as well resign as well. He is all bust finished. Life as a coach will not be easy for him.

My interest in the Swans will never be the same. I will follow the Swans like rubberneckers who can't look away from a car crash.

It is far too early to have a true idea of the longer term implications, and there is a fair chance they will be stark. But there is a pretty strong body of evidence out there that outside of systematic cases (like the Bombers injecting case) that absolutely gut a club, that the longer term impacts of serious misconduct from a small part of the playing group ultimately probably has a smaller effect then suggested. Especially if main perpetrators are removed (i.e. in this case anyone that is ultimately charged). We need to remember they are still human beings at the end of the day (even if despicable ones potentially depending on what actually happened), and in some cases may be worthy of the chance to redeem themselves in terms of their footballing careers. Plenty of others in the game before today have served punishments yet rebuilt their careers, if there are players in this situation that don't face criminal charges at the end of it all, or are found not guilty of said charges - then they will deserve a chance for redemption. Our club may choose for that to happen elsewhere, but they shouldn't be denied that chance.


There is no doubt it will have serious implications for the talent on the list - if we take the worst case scenario that none of the 5 ever play for the club again. But players will always come and go, generational talents come and go etc. But with that comes opportunities for others - it isn't always entirely gloom and doom.

The response from the club in terms of punishment to this point has been positive - I agree with some others that it hasn't been smoothly handled in some of the conversations (but strongly support the rationale that they are better off saying nothing then saying anything that could cause issues for the investigation) - but they've at least taken the necessary step to suspend all of them, irrespective of what happens in the criminal case side of it.

The club has a lot of 'walking the walk' to go from here to find a better way coming out of all this, but the actions it can take to this point have been swift, decisive and the right ones on balance.

As for memberships etc - only time will tell. But I actually suspect the longer term impact won't be huge in that regard, IF (and its a big IF) the club build on their initial actions and deliver meaningful change, and show commitment to 'never again'. Most of those loyal enough to have memberships are most concerned about seeing the club make the 'right calls' irrespective of the on field impacts, and if they do that, then their ongoing connection to the club is probably not strongly dinted.

There are a lot of IFs in there - sure. But its far from the clear cut absolute disaster being made out - at this point in time. Things could change both positively and negatively in that regard from here of course.

[stevoswan]

So who benefits if we get beaten by 20 goals?? I rather see no Swans team in the finals but at least see a close hard fought match.

So you still want to punish the entire playing group? Ok then.

[Ludwig]

I am sorry for my negativity at the moment, but I am so distraught over what has transpired, I find it hard to think straight right now.

No one really knows how things will unfold in the fullness of time, as they say. I don't know if the players can take the field feeling that they going out there playing with their best mates. I honestly don't know what they will be feeling. Will they be resentful or will they be forgiving? I don't know.

I suppose I will be able to think more clearly about this after some time has passed and we take in the reactions of all involved.

[Roadrunner]

It is far too early to have a true idea of the longer term implications, and there is a fair chance they will be stark. But there is a pretty strong body of evidence out there that outside of systematic cases (like the Bombers injecting case) that absolutely gut a club, that the longer term impacts of serious misconduct from a small part of the playing group ultimately probably has a smaller effect then suggested. Especially if main perpetrators are removed (i.e. in this case anyone that is ultimately charged). We need to remember they are still human beings at the end of the day (even if despicable ones potentially depending on what actually happened), and in some cases may be worthy of the chance to redeem themselves in terms of their footballing careers. Plenty of others in the game before today have served punishments yet rebuilt their careers, if there are players in this situation that don't face criminal charges at the end of it all, or are found not guilty of said charges - then they will deserve a chance for redemption. Our club may choose for that to happen elsewhere, but they shouldn't be denied that chance.


There is no doubt it will have serious implications for the talent on the list - if we take the worst case scenario that none of the 5 ever play for the club again. But players will always come and go, generational talents come and go etc. But with that comes opportunities for others - it isn't always entirely gloom and doom.

The response from the club in terms of punishment to this point has been positive - I agree with some others that it hasn't been smoothly handled in some of the conversations (but strongly support the rationale that they are better off saying nothing then saying anything that could cause issues for the investigation) - but they've at least taken the necessary step to suspend all of them, irrespective of what happens in the criminal case side of it.

The club has a lot of 'walking the walk' to go from here to find a better way coming out of all this, but the actions it can take to this point have been swift, decisive and the right ones on balance.

As for memberships etc - only time will tell. But I actually suspect the longer term impact won't be huge in that regard, IF (and its a big IF) the club build on their initial actions and deliver meaningful change, and show commitment to 'never again'. Most of those loyal enough to have memberships are most concerned about seeing the club make the 'right calls' irrespective of the on field impacts, and if they do that, then their ongoing connection to the club is probably not strongly dinted.

There are a lot of IFs in there - sure. But its far from the clear cut absolute disaster being made out - at this point in time. Things could change both positively and negatively in that regard from here of course.

Thank you for a great and encouraging post mcs- it’s important for us to remain positive and support our club, which is showing a brave and no- nonsense approach to an event that came out of the blue.

I can understand Ludwig’s (and some others’) reaction but disagree strongly, as this can galvanise both our Club and the rest of our players. Win, lose or draw, our team needs to rise above adversity to show what it is made of, both now and in the future. This is a very sad and debilitating event but guys it’s not the end of the world and the sun will shine tomorrow! It is a test for the club and its mettle and as for us, are we just fair weather supporters?

[Dooloo]

I am sorry for my negativity at the moment, but I am so distraught over what has transpired, I find it hard to think straight right now.

No one really knows how things will unfold in the fullness of time, as they say. I don't know if the players can take the field feeling that they going out there playing with their best mates. I honestly don't know what they will be feeling. Will they be resentful or will they be forgiving? I don't know.

I suppose I will be able to think more clearly about this after some time has passed and we take in the reactions of all involved.

This. First the initial shock, followed by anger, wanting answers and none forth coming, followed resignation, despair and finally realisation. Sadly, there is more pain to come. I for one are seriously considering terminating my membership after 30 continuous years and walking away after 56 years of support.

Throughout the colourful history of the club, I've always stood by them. But this time I've basically had enough. I'll sit back and wait until seasons end, then make a clear decision.

[stevoswan]

This. First the initial shock, followed by anger, wanting answers and none forth coming, followed resignation, despair and finally realisation. Sadly, there is more pain to come. I for one are seriously considering terminating my membership after 30 continuous years and walking away after 56 years of support.

Throughout the colourful history of the club, I've always stood by them. But this time I've basically had enough. I'll sit back and wait until seasons end, then make a clear decision.

So 5 players represent the whole club? You honestly believe that the clubs strong and unequivocal response to this situation is deserving of desertion of the club? Wow, I guess that's your prerogative....but yeah, make a decision when you've actually calmed down.

[Dooloo]

So 5 players represent the whole club? You honestly believe that the clubs strong and unequivocal response to this situation is deserving of desertion of the club? Wow, I guess that's your prerogative....but yeah, make a decision when you've actually calmed down.

Judging by your response, it appears your trying to make it for me

[stevoswan]

Judging by your response, it appears your trying to make it for me

Of course I don't want anyone to desert the club.

[UUaswan]

So 5 players represent the whole club? You honestly believe that the clubs strong and unequivocal response to this situation is deserving of desertion of the club? Wow, I guess that's your prerogative....but yeah, make a decision when you've actually calmed down.

What happens if no charges are laid ?

What call has the club made ?
They didnt break a curfew, they were allowed to drink. Maybe Cox should be stood down for a month for allowing both those things and not the players ?

I think they have partners to answer to. Some of them maybe not even that.

Allow an investigation to happen, if an Employee goes on a work trip and an allegation is made to a co worker, the whole organisations goals and hard work arent thrown out the @@@@ing window.

[stevoswan]

What happens if no charges are laid ?

What call has the club made ?
They didnt break a curfew, they were allowed to drink. Maybe Cox should be stood down for a month for allowing both those things and not the players ?

I think they have partners to answer to. Some of them maybe not even that.

Allow an investigation to happen, if an Employee goes on a work trip and an allegation is made to a co worker, the whole organisations goals and hard work arent thrown out the @@@@ing window.

Why are you attacking me?. I have also called for allowing the investigation to play out.....and have already suggested the clubs response may have been too harsh without the full facts being known.

In the words of Pavlich "We are not abandoning the players". I agree with that too......I think I have made that clear in a previous post.....although that post for some reason is being 'moderated' as 'potential spam' and remains 'unapproved'. I have NO idea why.

[mcs]

I am sorry for my negativity at the moment, but I am so distraught over what has transpired, I find it hard to think straight right now.

No one really knows how things will unfold in the fullness of time, as they say. I don't know if the players can take the field feeling that they going out there playing with their best mates. I honestly don't know what they will be feeling. Will they be resentful or will they be forgiving? I don't know.

I suppose I will be able to think more clearly about this after some time has passed and we take in the reactions of all involved.

You have zero need to apologise Ludwig - we all are hurting from this, and I can fully comprehend why you are feeling like that. We all are to some degree I am sure.

Thank you for a great and encouraging post mcs- it’s important for us to remain positive and support our club, which is showing a brave and no- nonsense approach to an event that came out of the blue.

I can understand Ludwig’s (and some others’) reaction but disagree strongly, as this can galvanise both our Club and the rest of our players. Win, lose or draw, our team needs to rise above adversity to show what it is made of, both now and in the future. This is a very sad and debilitating event but guys it’s not the end of the world and the sun will shine tomorrow! It is a test for the club and its mettle and as for us, are we just fair weather supporters?

My general take is the club is prioritising (and this might sound silly - but it is important) the key thing that should be, and the footy will play out as it will, whatever may happen.

I'm hoping from a footballing perspective its a chance for a new star to unearth, a new leader to take a chance, someone to stand up to be counted on the field.

And I hope it also turns into a watershed moment off the field on the more important matters - while it is clear the club hasn't been getting everything right off the field, I maintain a view (open to being challenged when evidence emerges over time) that this is more likely to be some human beings doing what human beings do and making very poor choices, then a sign of fundamental, systematic problems at the club. I expect there are clear cultural improvements that need to be made - but that applies to every club pretty much at every time.

Only time will tell what the long term implications are - it could be an utter disaster, but equally it could be the start of a better future too.

[stevoswan]

I wrote this comment and attempted to post it at around 2pm.....but it remains 'unapproved' as it has been deemed 'potential spam'. I have NO idea why that is, so I am going to repost it:

Suggestion: Maybe we should all have a Bex and a lie down for a bit.

Look, no doubt we are all angry, some more than others, some irrationally so. A lot of heat of the moment, moralistic comments, some bordering on hysterical, have been made.
I'm bloody angry too but I think it's wise for everyone to just take a deep breath and be a little more realistic in the face of this shocking turn of events that has beset our beloved club.....because let's face it, we still do not even know the full facts of what has actually happened.

We know it's not good obviously but how bad, we don't know that at all yet.....so just chill and let the police and the club do their due diligence before rushing to ultimate judgements and trying to out moralize each other.

There is no doubt there is serious reputational damage to the Swans and the fact that they have acted quickly and hopefully in the public's eyes, appropriately may go some way to help restoring some faith in that reputation.....although some people these days are never satisfied it seems. We'll see how history plays out on that score.

As for the playing group, I actually think they may be more rational, calm and realistic towards this situation and therefore, more forgiving than many here on this thread believe.

By all means the club should get rid of the one player who committed the worst offence but I actually think they should keep the rest.....and they can then set about regaining the trust of the group, who after assessing the facts as presented to them may not be as judgmental as some here have been in the heat of the moment.

The remaining players surely do not want to be the 'new Essendon' and frankly, be a bunch of losers.....surely they would want to remain strong, united and in finals contention for years to come.

I'm sure they can forgive those who let's face it and for all we know, stayed up too late and had a few drinks. This may change if the police investigation reveals a worse set of circumstances.....but we just have to wait and see on that.....and judge accordingly when that happens. They still deserve sanctioning and maybe more if a worse 'truth' comes out, if it ever fully does.....but I for one refuse to hang, draw and quarter them before the full facts are known.

As a lifetime fan, I want my club to remain strong, competitive and united and not self destruct in endless and unrealistic attempts to appease a baying outraged public that sometimes is never satisfied by serious and genuine attempts at redemption and self improvement. I trust my club and appeal to all fans to have faith in the clubs processes......which have got us to where we are today, being one of the great clubs.

.....and we still are.

PS: I have just read mcs's post above which was posted as I wrote mine.....indeed it is a sensible and measured assessment of the situation. Bravo