Alleged incident at hotel on Sunday night

[stevoswan]

I wrote this comment and attempted to post it at around 2pm.....but it remains 'unapproved' as it has been deemed 'potential spam'. I have NO idea why that is, so I am going to repost it:

Suggestion: Maybe we should all have a Bex and a lie down for a bit.

Look, no doubt we are all angry, some more than others, some irrationally so. A lot of heat of the moment, moralistic comments, some bordering on hysterical, have been made.
I'm bloody angry too but I think it's wise for everyone to just take a deep breath and be a little more realistic in the face of this shocking turn of events that has beset our beloved club.....because let's face it, we still do not even know the full facts of what has actually happened.

We know it's not good obviously but how bad, we don't know that at all yet.....so just chill and let the police and the club do their due diligence before rushing to ultimate judgements and trying to out moralize each other.

There is no doubt there is serious reputational damage to the Swans and the fact that they have acted quickly and hopefully in the public's eyes, appropriately may go some way to help restoring some faith in that reputation.....although some people these days are never satisfied it seems. We'll see how history plays out on that score.

As for the playing group, I actually think they may be more rational, calm and realistic towards this situation and therefore, more forgiving than many here on this thread believe.

By all means the club should get rid of the one player who committed the worst offence but I actually think they should keep the rest.....and they can then set about regaining the trust of the group, who after assessing the facts as presented to them may not be as judgmental as some here have been in the heat of the moment.

The remaining players surely do not want to be the 'new Essendon' and frankly, be a bunch of losers.....surely they would want to remain strong, united and in finals contention for years to come.

I'm sure they can forgive those who let's face it and for all we know, stayed up too late and had a few drinks. This may change if the police investigation reveals a worse set of circumstances.....but we just have to wait and see on that.....and judge accordingly when that happens. They still deserve sanctioning and maybe more if a worse 'truth' comes out, if it ever fully does.....but I for one refuse to hang, draw and quarter them before the full facts are known.

As a lifetime fan, I want my club to remain strong, competitive and united and not self destruct in endless and unrealistic attempts to appease a baying outraged public that sometimes is never satisfied by serious and genuine attempts at redemption and self improvement. I trust my club and appeal to all fans to have faith in the clubs processes......which have got us to where we are today, being one of the great clubs.

.....and we still are.

PS: I have just read mcs's post above which was posted as I wrote mine.....indeed it is a sensible and measured assessment of the situation. Bravo

[UUaswan]

Why are you attacking me?. I have also called for allowing the investigation to play out.....and have already suggested the clubs response may have been too harsh without the full facts being known.

In the words of Pavlich "We are not abandoning the players". I agree with that too......I think I have made that clear in a previous post.....although that post for some reason is being 'moderated' as 'potential spam' and remains 'unapproved'. I have NO idea why.

Not attacking you, following on the conversation

Furious at all the "club has done the right thing talk" when there haven't even been charges laid.

No coming back for these guys, and if innocent, how could they want to stay

[stevoswan]

Not attacking you, following on the conversation

Furious at all the "club has done the right thing talk" when there haven't even been charges laid.

No coming back for these guys, and if innocent, how could they want to stay

I see where you're coming from and I tend to agree.

Apparently the players involved have acknowledged that they stuffed up and have accepted the sanctions, according to reports coming out of the club anyway.

Hopefully this means they don't/won't harbour any ill will towards the club and are being truly remorseful about it all.....with a view to redemption and regaining teammate trust.

Time will tell on that score I guess.

[UUaswan]

I wrote this comment and attempted to post it at around 2pm.....but it remains 'unapproved' as it has been deemed 'potential spam'. I have NO idea why that is, so I am going to repost it:

Suggestion: Maybe we should all have a Bex and a lie down for a bit.

Look, no doubt we are all angry, some more than others, some irrationally so. A lot of heat of the moment, moralistic comments, some bordering on hysterical, have been made.
I'm bloody angry too but I think it's wise for everyone to just take a deep breath and be a little more realistic in the face of this shocking turn of events that has beset our beloved club.....because let's face it, we still do not even know the full facts what has actually happened.

We know it's not good obviously but how bad, we don't know that at all yet.....so just chill and let the police and the club do their due diligence before rushing to ultimate judgements and trying to out moralize each other.

There is no doubt there is serious reputational damage to the Swans and the fact that they have acted quickly and hopefully in the public's eyes, appropriately may go some way to help restoring some faith in that reputation.....although some people these days are never satisfied it seems. We'll see how history plays out on that score.

As for the playing group, I actually think they may be more rational, calm and realistic towards this situation and therefore, more forgiving than many here on this thread believe.

By all means the club should get rid of the one player who committed the worst offence but I actually think they should keep the rest.....and they can then set about regaining the trust of the group, who after assessing the facts as presented to them may not be as judgmental as some here have been in the heat of the moment.

The remaining players surely do not want to be the 'new Essendon' and frankly, be a bunch of losers.....surely they would want to remain strong, united and in finals contention for years to come.

I'm sure they can forgive those who let's face it and for all we know, stayed up too late and had a few drinks. This may change if the police investigation reveals a worse set of circumstances.....but we just have to wait and see on that.....and judge accordingly when that happens. They still deserve sanctioning and maybe more if a worse 'truth' comes out, if it ever fully does.....but I for one refuse to hang, draw and quarter them before the full facts are known.

As a lifetime fan, I want my club to remain strong, competitive and united and not self destruct in endless and unrealistic attempts to appease a baying outraged public that sometimes is never satisfied by serious and genuine attempts at redemption and self improvement. I trust my club and appeal to all fans to have faith in the clubs processes......which have got us to where we are today, being one of the great clubs.

.....and we still are.

PS: I have just read mcs's post above which was posted as I wrote mine.....indeed it is a sensible and measured assessment of the situation. Bravo

Agree here, need to be very careful trying to appease the mob as it is almost always never enough.....Suspend 5 players and they want Cox now

How we can act so harshly before an investigation is complete is beyond a joke, tarnishing all 5 beyond repair.

[UUaswan]

I see where you're coming from and I tend to agree.

Apparently the players involved have acknowledged that they stuffed up and have accepted the sanctions, according to reports coming out of the club anyway.

Hopefully this means they don't/won't harbour any ill will towards the club and are being truly remorseful about it all.....with a view to redemption and regaining teammate trust.

Time will tell on that score I guess.

I agree with a sanction, not the death sentence we handed down.

Make interim decisions dependent on investigations

Media narrative going fwd is.
X player was innocent and is considering a trade
X player lost trust in club for harsh penalty
A few players want out

Doesn't fix @@@@all, next week, next year is still a media circus, you cant get on the front foot with media and stop anything, we just fuelled the fire by not waiting for due process

[SwanSand]

I am sorry for my negativity at the moment, but I am so distraught over what has transpired, I find it hard to think straight right now.

No one really knows how things will unfold in the fullness of time, as they say. I don't know if the players can take the field feeling that they going out there playing with their best mates. I honestly don't know what they will be feeling. Will they be resentful or will they be forgiving? I don't know.

I suppose I will be able to think more clearly about this after some time has passed and we take in the reactions of all involved.

I obviously don’t know but i suspect this particular behaviour is only come about as it is a tip of the iceberg. There may have been instances in the past where they may have been opportunities to stamp out similar digressions creeping into the club which went under the wraps because of this pursuit of premiership and hence we are here.

Yes they are not guilty of doing anything wrong from the police action point of view unless they are charged. But they are guilty of doing what we think probably senior group of core players would not do and be splashed across the newspapers. So I agree that the fractures in the group may happen.

but I am more hopeful after the actions by the club today which I think is a surprise to a lot of people in AFL community as to how strong it was.

I think this action by the club would prevent the club from constant scrutiny and as a result it would be able to move forward on many fronts. But I agree we may have leaks in the current group of players if the chance of premiership dries out and we may not be a destination club for a few years. But again it is upto the club to integrate the group and possibly the players who are sanctioned. Which I think they can do. I am hopeful we are unlikely to see a major change in that quickly enough.

[mcs]

There is no world UU in which those guys playing another game this year would be a net 'positive' for the club.

It is important to remember the suspension is only about the events that led up to the incident, not the incident itself. The club would have a decent view on what transpired in that period, and they've made a clear call that it doesn't adhere to expected behaviours.

In the absolute toxic space the club finds itself in due to these nitwits, it was left with zero choice but to suspend them for the remainder of the season.

Imagine bringing them back in a fortnight's time and winning a flag that was forever tainted if some or all of them end up doing jail time afterwards for instance? We have no ability to judge the likeilhood of that situation, but it is a live one if they didn't go hard.

Even if there are no criminal charges and nothing comes about from it all, it is clear they've made very poor choices in getting in the situation to begin with - the club has freely admitted that in its statements to this point in time.

If they want to leave because they feel they've been treated harshly in this initial punishment, then I suspect they are people we probably don't want at the club long term anyway, no matter how good they are as footballers.

[cubby]

Obviously, at this stage, there is nothing to say regarding allegations of what transpired in the Hotel room, we simply don't know.

I hope the women at the centre of this is doing ok and being well supported.

So without wanting to diminish or distract from the core issue...ie: alleged SA

I'm also in no way trying to excuse the terrible decisions these senior players made...

But I am a little bit perplexed about is hearing Pav admit there was no curfew in place.

That being the case, at what time does not being back in bed become a transgression 1am...3am ?

How many drinks is too many...4...6..8 ?

These are rhetorical questions, my real question is has the Clubs leaders been too liberal, and too trusting of the players, by not having hard and fast rules.

Has it been spelt out to the players that transgressing will have extremely harsh penalties?

I wonder if they, the Club leaders(CEO, Coaches etc) have let things slip in recent years, assuming the so called 'Bloods Culture' will always prevail.

I sincerely hope they have a good hard look at themselves and not just the players.

[Sandridge]

I’ve felt sick about this issue and am deeply concerned about the ramifications for our club.

How will it affect our club’s on field performance in the future?
How do our AFLW players and female staff and members feel about our club now?
Will we lose members?
Will big sponsors like QBE decide we’re no longer an appropriate club for them to support?

I feel that this issue is going to have a long-lasting detrimental effect on the club and that deeply concerns me.

However,………….

My Dad started taking me to South Melbourne games in 1961 when I was 4 and he taught me the values of passion and loyalty. I have loved our club ever since. And what has happened in the last few days hasn’t changed that feeling one little bit. No matter what happened Sunday night or how bad it was, I’ll be buggered if I’m going to let whatever a handful of players did affect the way I feel about my club.

I love the Bloods. Always will.

And when I’m carried out in a box at the end of my funeral, it will be to the tune of the Sydney Swans theme song.

[UUaswan]

40+ staff staying at a hotel, multiple strippers in a room no one saw anything or knew what was going on..... Not saying it was condoned but I doubt that @@@@ isnt known about by the Club Leaders now preaching morality.

Id go a step further and say the word would be, if you get a stripper and carrying on do it in your room and not out in public.

And again, if the sanction is independent of the investigation and they didnt break a curfew or alcohol ban, wtf is a 6 week ban for

[UUaswan]

Couldnt imagine another club in our position taking this action but we do because "our culture is so strong".....

Woke appeasement is never enough, there is a reason the Law allows for due process and if a conviction is laid, crucify then not before.

Id also bet anything not all 5 are charged.

[mcs]

You are coming from a position of very little actual knowledge UU, as we all are.

It has nothing to do with woke appeasement, or whatever drivel you want to throw out there.

If some of what is floating around out there on the internet turns out to be true, then these initial sanctions will seem trivial, especially for the key party involved.

[mcs]

Obviously, at this stage, there is nothing to say regarding allegations of what transpired in the Hotel room, we simply don't know.

I hope the women at the centre of this is doing ok and being well supported.

So without wanting to diminish or distract from the core issue...ie: alleged SA

I'm also in no way trying to excuse the terrible decisions these senior players made...

But I am a little bit perplexed about is hearing Pav admit there was no curfew in place.

That being the case, at what time does not being back in bed become a transgression 1am...3am ?

How many drinks is too many...4...6..8 ?

These are rhetorical questions, my real question is has the Clubs leaders been too liberal, and too trusting of the players, by not having hard and fast rules.

Has it been spelt out to the players that transgressing will have extremely harsh penalties?

I wonder if they, the Club leaders(CEO, Coaches etc) have let things slip in recent years, assuming the so called 'Bloods Culture' will always prevail.

I sincerely hope they have a good hard look at themselves and not just the players.

It is an interesting conundrum cubby. I suspect the emergence of this generation into adulthood in general has seen a bit of a shift away from a prescriptive rules based approach within sporting clubs, in line with a wider shift towards a more 'softly softly' approach on many matters. I suspect this has had positive impacts in many ways, but has created great ambiguity in many others.

I suspect the transgressions here aren't about there being no curfew, or about them having a few beers. I suspect there are much more serious matters that happened in that lead up period that has led to a foot being stamped down very hard as it has.

[Go Swannies]

40+ staff staying at a hotel, multiple strippers in a room no one saw anything or knew what was going on..... Not saying it was condoned but I doubt that @@@@ isnt known about by the Club Leaders now preaching morality.

Id go a step further and say the word would be, if you get a stripper and carrying on do it in your room and not out in public.

And again, if the sanction is independent of the investigation and they didnt break a curfew or alcohol ban, wtf is a 6 week ban for

Wow that's a take! I have so many friends that I've gone to games with for 25 years that were debating yesterday on which club to switch to. I have others who have been to every game since the Swans moved north who were not planning on renewing their membership. Many, but not all of these, were female. The club needed to be decisive or the ground would have been empty this weekend - and for finals. I've decided that this will be the first game in decades where I won't wear red and white with pride - or at all. The club's action gives me some ground for believe that it realizes that the very future of the club is at stake here. Sure there will be some members of the manosphere who feel the club has gone too hard. The rest of the rational world is waiting to see if this is followed up by a sweep of everyone responsible for letting this happen. Not the night in question but the whole unravelling of the bloods culture.

[UUaswan]

You are coming from a position of very little actual knowledge UU, as we all are.

It has nothing to do with woke appeasement, or whatever drivel you want to throw out there.

If some of what is floating around out there on the internet turns out to be true, then these initial sanctions will seem trivial, especially for the key party involved.

And the other 4 are just collateral and tarred with the same brush, guilty by association