Alleged incident at hotel on Sunday night

[UUaswan]

Something as 'trivial as an investigation'.

Those words and callous UU at best. I'd suggest you rethink.

That was the point in the trivial

Why do club leaders get the benefit of letting things unfold before future ramifications are known but the players involved do not

[UUaswan]

What needs to be investigated by the Board to say the culture is @@@@@@ ?

Alleged 5 players under investigation for Sexual Assault, doesn't that prove the culture is @@@@@@ ?

Sack the Coach and the CEO now, what are we waiting for ?

Or do they get the future benefit of an inquiry ?

[Merdo5555]

3 to 5 matches for being out late, drinking and bringing a stripper to their room.

You seriously want to argue the potential charges haven't been considered.

If there wasnt a potentially criminal act or actions you're seriously arguing the above list would get you 5 matches.

I would suggest 1 or 2 at the most.

Everyone needs to stop pretending that the potential criminal charges haven't been baked into the punishment. If they haven't then the morality police are running wild.

Ultimately, without the suggestion of criminal acts or actions the players at worse were drunk, out late and brought a stripper to their room (all very very stupid things in the context of commencing finals in a week's time) but other than their partners its not my job to make moral judgments.

They miss 1 or 2 matches at most.

Stop the hand-wringing and admit you've baked in the potential criminal charges, to do anything less is hypocritical.

I think their behavior is stupid, deplorable and potentially criminal but fact is their punishment has baked into it an assumption of guilt into it.

No i dont condone drunken stupidity, staying up all night or calling up strippers to take to your hotel room but nor am I the judge of whats right or wrong, thats what the law is for. Nor do i drink, hire strippers or bring random girls to hotel rooms, I just dont believe i should be the moral arbiter of others actions. This is why we have a legal code not a moral one.

Stop punishing them on the basis of crimes that remain allegations only.

At most 2 matches would fit the level of stupidity engaged in and the letting down of their teammates. Thats a punishment that fully reflects a disregard of the potential criminal acts.

Otherwise please explain how you get to potentially 5 matches and including finals.

People truly dont understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

So far their guilty of poor judgment and gross stupidity, punish them on that basis.

If criminal charges are laid and convictions upheld then deal with them once its done

[mcs]

You have no idea Merdo whether that is the extent of what happened in the lead up or not - ie what the sanctions relate to. The club has a lot more access to genuine information than any of us do about that period, and have made their judgment, and they haven't chosen to release information at this time about their decision making process. And I expect probably never will.

Media outrage or whatever you want to call it, but there is no world in which the club as an entity would be seen in a positive light from a 1 or 2 week ban, in which the players would play football again this season. That was never going to be a viable option given the media storm - rightly or wrongly.

The club has made no judgment on the alleged incident - how is that hard to understand? They are leaving that to the appropriate body to do.

The rights of innocent until proven guilty have all been upheld for the matter that is potentially criminal.

The matter for which they were sanctioned is not criminal in nature, and the decision makers that hold the pen have made their call and found them guilty of breaching the standards expected. They've been punished on that basis, and that basis alone.

[mcs]

That was the point in the trivial

Why do club leaders get the benefit of letting things unfold before future ramifications are known but the players involved do not

Because there is no world in which letting players play, saying 'nothing to see here' and seeing what comes would be acceptable. Like it or not - that is the world we live in. You can't simply exclude the need for clear pragmatism within approach, unless you are happy to just burn the whole place down in the process.

Issues of culture should be thoroughly explored as part of the response, and if they are not I will be the loudest of critics. But you don't do that well if you do it rashly, as you would seemingly like to do.

Anyway, my mental energy is well and truly drained. Time to do other things to take my mind off the awful few days for our club.

[Merdo5555]

You have no idea Merdo whether that is the extent of what happened in the lead up or not - ie what the sanctions relate to. The club has a lot more access to genuine information than any of us do about that period, and have made their judgment, and they haven't chosen to release information at this time about their decision making process. And I expect probably never will.

Media outrage or whatever you want to call it, but there is no world in which the club as an entity would be seen in a positive light from a 1 or 2 week ban, in which the players would play football again this season. That was never going to be a viable option given the media storm - rightly or wrongly.

The club has made no judgment on the alleged incident - how is that hard to understand? They are leaving that to the appropriate body to do.

The rights of innocent until proven guilty have all been upheld for the matter that is potentially criminal.

The matter for which they were sanctioned is not criminal in nature, and the decision makers that hold the pen have made their call and found them guilty of breaching the standards expected. They've been punished on that basis, and that basis alone.

Your comment confirms it you; are more concerned with the look of it, the club may have more information but have explicitly said they havent considered the potential criminal conduct.

You have done exactly what I said you have baked in the alleged criminal conduct into the punishment. Just admit it.

[UUaswan]

Because there is no world in which letting players play, saying 'nothing to see here' and seeing what comes would be acceptable. Like it or not - that is the world we live in. You can't simply exclude the need for clear pragmatism within approach, unless you are happy to just burn the whole place down in the process.

Issues of culture should be thoroughly explored as part of the response, and if they are not I will be the loudest of critics. But you don't do that well if you do it rashly, as you would seemingly like to do.

Anyway, my mental energy is well and truly drained. Time to do other things to take my mind off the awful few days for our club.

Rules for thee but not for me

Players can't play but Pav and Cox can continue in their most Senior roles overseeing AFLW, meeting Sponsors addressing members

[Merdo5555]

Wow they said they didnt consider it,in a statement, wow that makes it true.

Is their any PR release you wont believe?

[Merdo5555]

They may not have even consciously considered, thats my whole point its been baked into considerations before they even started.

You think if nothing potentially criminal happened their teammates would support a potential 5 match ban?

[Ludwig]

I wouldn't be underestimating the fallout from this incident. I suggest listening to the Swans fans who called into the SEN Whately show, as well as his interview with Phil Davis.

For those who have been on here or Big Footy for 10 years or so, remember the epithets used referring to Essendon. Injectors and similar slurs.

Season suspensions for 5 players is only the beginning.

Grab on to this thought: WE are the new Essendon.

[Merdo5555]

I wouldn't be underestimating the fallout from this incident. I suggest listening to the Swans fans who called into the SEN Whately show, as well as his interview with Phil Davis.

For those who have been on here or Big Footy for 10 years or so, remember the epithets used referring to Essendon. Injectors and similar slurs.

Season suspensions for 5 players is only the beginning.

Grab on to this thought: WE are the new Essendon.

If fans are judging a whole club, entity because of the actions of a few they are fair weather at the very least. In the end the club is above and beyond the actions of 1 or 5 individuals.

By that logic one corrupt copper means they are all corrupt. Such short sighted and ignorant commentary

[imuninformedtwo]

Look, as someone who’s had some wonderful times over the years with the combination of women, alcohol, other substances and early morning action in my time, I’m not judging the players morally. Hell, it’s all fond memories for me.

But my actions a) weren’t in the context of a workplace, b) didn’t affect others and their workplace, or workplace outcomes, and c) never led to a criminal complaint. I should add d) never compromised my chance of winning a flag, but that’s pretty obvious.

And the club clearly has sufficient information to make that call.

As for the why five when only one player faces charges question? Well, we don’t know that to be true. It may be. But there’s been a lot of bad reporting in two days alone. Some of what we read today may well be wrong. And it might be the club knows, for example, player A organised the kick on, player B organised some substances (if that’s the case), player C organised the lap dancers and player D is the one facing an investigation. But it seems clear five players were in that room at some stage.

I’d also suggest there’s another part of this, beyond the issues internal to the two playing groups. The bottom line. Can you imagine we let players play for now. Every major commercial partner is already being asked by the media for their response. The easiest thing for them to do would be to walk away and for example, Telstra has pulled brand ambassadorships with some Swans players. At least we’ve given them the capacity to say they’re in dialogue with the club and expect them to take it seriously,which their actions so far suggest they do.

You might say that sucks as a motivation, but it’s real and unavoidable. It’s not the main reason for acting, but it’s not nothing.

[Merdo5555]

At least you honestly admit the potential criminal conduct played a huge role.

All im doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of those trying to claim it didnt. Again there is no way they get a ban for the rest of the year without the criminal allegations.

We should just be honest about it and stop pretending we arent considering everything that happened.

In the context of everything that happened the ban is appropriate but on the phony basis that we didnt consider the alleged criminal conduct.

[dejavoodoo44]

Look, as someone who’s had some wonderful times over the years with the combination of women, alcohol, other substances and early morning action in my time, I’m not judging the players morally. Hell, it’s all fond memories for me.

But my actions a) weren’t in the context of a workplace, b) didn’t affect others and their workplace, or workplace outcomes, and c) never led to a criminal complaint. I should add d) never compromised my chance of winning a flag, but that’s pretty obvious.

And the club clearly has sufficient information to make that call.

As for the why five when only one player faces charges question? Well, we don’t know that to be true. It may be. But there’s been a lot of bad reporting in two days alone. Some of what we read today may well be wrong. And it might be the club knows, for example, player A organised the kick on, player B organised some substances (if that’s the case), player C organised the lap dancers and player D is the one facing an investigation. But it seems clear five players were in that room at some stage.

I’d also suggest there’s another part of this, beyond the issues internal to the two playing groups. The bottom line. Can you imagine we let players play for now. Every major commercial partner is already being asked by the media for their response. The easiest thing for them to do would be to walk away and for example, Telstra has pulled brand ambassadorships with some Swans players. At least we’ve given them the capacity to say they’re in dialogue with the club and expect them to take it seriously,which their actions so far suggest they do.

You might say that sucks as a motivation, but it’s real and unavoidable. It’s not the main reason for acting, but it’s not nothing.

Exactly, and how many of our supporters would be happy to come out in a few weeks time, to enthusiastically cheer on a few possible sex offenders. Or a the very least, cheer on the idiots whose behaviour is responsible for launching this @@@@ show.

[stevoswan]

Couldnt imagine another club in our position taking this action but we do because "our culture is so strong".....

Woke appeasement is never enough, there is a reason the Law allows for due process and if a conviction is laid, crucify then not before.

Id also bet anything not all 5 are charged.

Not looking for conflict but it annoys me when people use the word "woke". I find it lazy and demeaning. It's a mythical political word that if anything simply means 'respect for others no matter who they are'.....but it is bandied about as some sort of insult to those who do believe in respect for others by those that seemingly don't care too much.....and also thrown out there to diminish well meaning efforts to achieve the reasonable goal of societal respect.

I think the public rightly needs to immediately support accusers/victims of sexual assault.....if that is 'woke', so be it but I would say it's actually appeasement of a potential victims claims and their right to be heard. Until the facts may say otherwise, I think in a responsible society this is the right way to go.

Having said that, we do have a justice system that promotes the concept of innocent until proven guilty, so I do get your point......just not sure it's 'wokeness' that is turning that concept on it's head as some may claim has happened here. My guess is that the players have admitted, to the club at least that something of an inappropriate sexual nature has occurred, whether it be by one or more players.

Anyway, hopefully the police will get to the bottom of it.