Rnd 7 Vs Hawks

[Melbournehammer]

But the premiership isn't based on one game.

Which was precisely my point. And that was what I was trying to convey - that although we were poor you don't make an assessment on one game. And unlike the knee jerk Jesse is an embarrassment response, my view is that if you based your views on the one game you would struggle to find a swans team that deserved to be playing the cream of the comp. so why blame Jesse as the scapegoat.

Having reflected a bit more though there are two ways of looking at the game. The first is that we have all seen this movie before. Swans come to melbourne and the mcg and (insert team - pies, saints, dees, tigers, hawks because they have all done it in recent seasons) home team spanks us. In each game the structures fall apart under pressure, we get beaten out of the middle and we look so slow as the ball moves from one opponent to another and we trail them pathetically. In every one of those games the dysfunctional forward line and play gets us, although to be fair it is always when we get beaten out of the middle. This view is the glass half full view based on what we have all seen.

There is a second view which I don't think is unreasonable to hold. This view says we might slip into the bottom half of the eight or worse.

This view says we have been poor all season. The sides we have beaten so far have won 8 from 32. We have played good football for about 45 minutes in total, although to be fair I felt we played pretty well against geelong but they were a lot better. We were ordinary in the pre season, and nothing has changed.

This view says that mcveigh has carried the team on his delivery and goal kicking. That goodes is not and never has been a forward to rely upon. That reid has hard hands and has dropped a great many marks against poor teams. That Jude, Parker, bird, rok are terribly slow and if all played together as crumbing forwards the modern approach of play on at all times crushes them. That without shaw in the backline we are slow forward and behind the ball. That without pyke taking marks in the forward line we have looked terrible all season and simply unable to mark the ball forward of centre but this has been masked by midfielders crumbing goals against teams which are running at a 25% win rate. This view says that the only way we can defend against the really good forwards has been to have four players go up against cloke or buddy and when the ball hits the deck we are all spread eagled and they aren't.

I am not quite sure where my own thinking sits at the moment. I know our defence is undermanned and that has been the bedrock for the team. But our supposed classy midfield has been belted a lot of times in clearances against all of our opponents including those poor afl teams. Mummy has been poor. Our inside work has been poor, and our field kicking and hand passing has been poor. It has just been covered up by the weakness of our opponents. Match after match people on here have said so.

Last night brought it all together. Time after time we missed players who had done all the hard work to break free of their opponent. Although I am singling them out unfairly because it was common enough across the board, Goodes and mal repeatedly missed targets and turned the ball over. So we couldnt win it, when we got it we couldnt keep it and when they got it look out. When rampe was made to stand roughhead you knew that we were in trouble

I guess you could say that we are travelling like a 6-10 team currently. Next week becomes really vital.

[bloodbrother]

agree with this sentiment, too early to panic about one game..everything hawthorn tried tonite worked ,eg kicking goals from impossible angles ..everything was going through.things will be much different later in the year when shaw,LRT , Mumford and hopefully Gary Rohan come back in..then there is always The Tippett factor as well..the swans still fought the second half out well...don't lose faith..

[wolftone57]

This.

We're clearly not currently as good a team as the Cats or Hawks, and probably the Bombers too. We need to improve. We needed to improve this time last year, and we did. Whether we can or not this year remains to be seen, but I'm not slitting my wrists over this loss.

Interesting game for Rampe. He was clearly singled out early as vulnerable, and there was a bad missed tackle on Buddy that should have stopped one of his goals. But he didn't drop his head and was serviceable for the rest of the game.

Liz Rampe was set up and our experienced backs did nothing to remedy the situation. The coaching staff eventually reacted but the on field leaders should have reacted sooner and countered the measure. i felt so sorry for the lad being monstered by Hale, Bayley, Roughy & Gunston. they were rotating them on him. Marty, Reg & Teddy should have been more aware of what was happening. How did it happen he was minding the resting rucks at 189cm. Bloody stupid. He played quite well when he was able to play on a player more his size. Tony A was good.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Rnd 7 Vs Hawks

For the last time - if you base you opinion of the side on one game then the answer certainly is yes.

But the premiership isn't based on one game.

[wolftone57]

I feel that White was very close to our Worse player and I hope he does not get a
game anytime soon. When he got a few hitouts they always went to Hawthorn. When he was in front for a marking contest, he moved behind. When he booted in a almost vacant forward 50, he kicked it to two Hawthorn players. Sorry there must be no gray matter up there at all. personally I thought we looked totally switched off tonight. Missed many tackles and I did not see too much hard running. With the Hawthorn talls dominating, it shows we really need LRT back.

Gee kicking to Hawthorn players could just about apply to every player in the 22 today. I actually don't believe he was our worst by far have a look at a couple of very experienced players for that. He came in at the last minute to a crucial game against the runners up to a premiership who were out for revenge and who had played every good side in the comp except Essendon before today. They were primed for us. He has come from a competition that is so much slower than this game it is unreal. A game against Lions he would have been quite good but against the class of the Hawks rucks he was always going to be battling as the VFL is a far better comp than the NEAFL and Bayley had been playing there. Bayley is a first round draft pick by the way. Why just pick on him? Try Reg or Mal (4 possessions in the first half), Marty (let his player have so much room he was making the play from half back, Bruest).

[R-1]

Re: Rnd 7 Vs Hawks

White was not awful but he wasn't good. He showed nothing that puts him over any other of our talls.

[crackedactor]

White was not our worst. If one has reviewed every game of his and decided on "rubbish" then one could aptly be referred to as a buffoon.

He definitely has support for his place in the side. For example I'm sure Armstrong is delighted that White got a game.

The one we missed tonight was our weapon BLT. They were without Cyril but no matter as the ball wasn't hitting the deck in their F50.

We have work to do but SO much upside. We'll be there abouts when it counts.

I feel that White was very close to our Worse player and I hope he does not get a
game anytime soon. When he got a few hitouts they always went to Hawthorn. When he was in front for a marking contest, he moved behind. When he booted in a almost vacant forward 50, he kicked it to two Hawthorn players. Sorry there must be no gray matter up there at all. personally I thought we looked totally switched off tonight. Missed many tackles and I did not see too much hard running. With the Hawthorn talls dominating, it shows we really need LRT back.

[DamY]

Rnd 7 Vs Hawks

I was on the anti-Armstrong train but over the past 3 games I've gotten off that train and I think he's improving with experience

[Industrial Fan]

White was not our worst. If one has reviewed every game of his and decided on "rubbish" then one could aptly be referred to as a buffoon.

He definitely has support for his place in the side. For example I'm sure Armstrong is delighted that White got a game.

The one we missed tonight was our weapon BLT. They were without Cyril but no matter as the ball wasn't hitting the deck in their F50.

We have work to do but SO much upside. We'll be there abouts when it counts.

[dimelb]

Our history indicates that if we kick 13 goals, we usually win. An exception is when we let the other team kick 18.
In the GF the best defence played the best attack and held their own; but you can't lose three first-choice defenders and expect the same results. I didn't expect to win tonight for this reason. Even moving Sam to defence for a while made some difference but couldn't solve the problem.
Our delivery was often astray because the Hawks' pressure was very good; in that area they beat us at our own game.
We don't have anything like the accuracy we had last year in kicking for goal. The coaches put a lot of practice into it last year and we improved, so a bit more of that might help. In any case we don't have a stable forward line at present, and we won't until Tippett comes on line.
The mids battled valiantly but lacked the precision in delivery shown by the Hawks.
Put it down as a learning experience for the youngsters - Lamb looked good at this level, Rampe made a mistake or two but worked hard all night and did good things as well - and let's do better next time.

[31 hard at it]

It was hard sitting there and seeing the Hawks dominate on the forward line.
We fought back well after quarter time but the effort was largely wasted with no structure up forward.
When its Jude and Benny as the only 2 up front againt 5 Hawks then bombing it in is probably not the right move !
So why did we keep on and on doing it

Another disappointing game at the G !

Lots of loyal fans in attendance but not a lot to take from it.

Luke Hodge is an awesome player.

[wolftone57]

Exactly how I feel. We were beaten by a very good team. They were slick in their disposal and kicking for goal. We had nothing to challenge a very solid defence. They contested hard all night. They didn't have any letdowns, nor did we for that matter. They were simply a much better team all night.

Hopefully some of our inclusions after the bye will give us a much needed boost.

John Kennedy: A team is only as good as the opposition allows it to be

he also said take every loss as a personal insult. Bleed with every lost contest, die with every lost game. Winning is about making every effort count, every possession a positive one, every tackle stick and every player doing his job.

That did not happen for us tonight. We had passengers. We have had all season. Players who just do enough in the easy games but in this game were found out.

[wolftone57]

Okay we've played halfway decent football for two games this year and lost both. I was hoping we'd come out tonight to make a statement but it turns out that was what the Hawks wanted to do more. If that isn't the wake up (that I hoped the Cats results would have been) then we are in trouble. But I'm not worried yet. If was Horse I'd have Benny do the aftermatch talk - is he hungry for a shot at a Premiership or what?

Right now I think the Cats and Hawks are playing better footy than the Swans but not really anyone else. We'll find out over the next few weeks. We just need enough wins on the board to come back after the break fit, hungry and with (hopefully) LRT, Shaw and Tippett.

At the moment Bombers would slaughter us too. dockers are playing pretty well as well.

[gumby_bolts]

Trying to look at positives, I think we outscored them in the last two quarters or close to it.
Pyke played well (I guess he should be now considering he has been playing 6-7 yrs, thanks BT)
Great to see goodes up and about in the midfield. He looked like he was back to full fitness.
More top level game experience for rampe and Armstrong.
Benny showing how big his ticker is.
Jetta laying some great tackles.
LRT, shaw, tippet and Mumford to come in soonish.
Any more?

[wolftone57]

Reg; Can you actually kick to a Swans player. did you play with Brian Lake and Josh Gibson in another life? Why did you not take the ruckman or arrange something to help the kid Rampe when he was being monstered by; Hale, Bayley, Roughy & Gunston. Same applies to teddy who stuffed up all night tonight, unusual normally but this year he has been up & down.

Goodsie; A lot of people are saying he was our best. But I would like to know how many times he actually hit a Swans player. His delivery was crap both by hand and foot. He constantly put other players under pressure by making bad decisions. He was much better in the second half than first especially the last.

Jesse; Tried very hard under extremely hard conditions. Bayley was a first draft pick and is a very good ruckman, extremely versatile and agile. He at least presented in the forward line and kicked a goal. Give him another go if Mummy is still injured. He has had to come up to the pace of this level and a finals type pace after all that the Hawks put on, not us of course, we are still on under 10's pace. He was definitely not our worst.

Birdie; absolutely killed all night. They pegged his lack of pace and exploited it all night. He was at least 10 metres behind no matter who he played on. I thought he would have been subbed off.

Marty; I know why he was subbed. He was killed. He also didn't command the back line and as the senior player there he should have noticed Rampe was being exposed to the Talls. He didn't and Longmire sent him a message.

Bolts; the Hawks exploited his lack of pace too. They ran off him all night. He contested well and even won a few but the delivery was district footy class tonight and his opponent was a very good spoil and overhead mark.

Too many of our players seemed to want to get the outside ball tonight but not go in and get the hard ball. Joey, Parker, Ryano all tried hard in close but others were a bit reticent to go after the hard ball. Benny tried and threw himself in all night.

Hannas seemed to panic all night his delivery was terrible.

We have beaten nobody that is even vaguely challenging for the eight yet. The two sides that we needed to match it with, Hawks & Cats we were destroyed by. The Cats had us all night even though it took the third to finish us off and the Hawks knew we were dead in the second quarter. We have beaten no team of importance and we need to beat Collingwood, Carlton and Fremantle because Essendon will murder us if we offer up this crap. I don't think Pies are that good but the way we are playing even they will beat us.

Impressed by Lambie. He at least had a presence and seemed to have plenty of time. His delivery was pretty good under very tough conditions out there. I thought he could have been brought on earlier. I was right that there would be no change but I thought we might have played Morton and when Bayley came in I would have thought the alarm bells would have tolled. I wonder when Hawks made that decision?

Need to look at the back half while LRT is injured. We are a little light on tall backs at the moment and Reg is up and down, the same as Teddy. Teddy at least holds his own but Reg when under real pressure can sometimes go to water and tonight was one of those times. He was killed tonight and his delivery was crap.