Changes for round 18 - Freo

[giant]

I’m hoping McLean is going to spend significant time in the ruck. But it’s unlikely.

Really? I'm surprised at this view, I assumed he has been chosen as the #1 ruck.

EDIT: Now see his stats, kinda assumed he was bigger than that. Also hadn't dawned on me that Sandi was in addition to rather than a replacement for Lobbe and Darcy. Though presumably in absence of Hogan one of those will be playing extensively forward. Certianly going to be the battle of contrasting styles!

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Menzel should of come in for him.
Hayward has been one of my faves the last 2 years but he's been appalling for the second half of this year, he needs to regain form and confidence

Couldn't agree with this more. Will is desperately out of touch and to keep picking him seems cruel. Would have kept Jack myself.

[MattW]

Maybe Knoll is not up to it yet and would have embarrassed himself and the team.

Yes, exactly.

I just watched the NEAFL highlights from last week and you can see why McLean was picked: crashes the pack, can clunk a mark, competes. He'll provide a target forward, allowing Reid and Blakey more space on the lead and proving crumbling opportunities for Papley and Hayward.

[rb4x]

I can only surmise that Knoll is injured as otherwise it would have been a nobrainer to bring him in. His form in the NEAFL was fair and good at South Adelaide. He is a strong mauling type of ruckman who could have negated somewhat the Freo ruck advantage at ball ups and throw ins but would be expected to be well beaten at centre bounces.

Maybe the match committee believed the rumour that Sandilands was out. Freo kept very quiet that Fyfe was going to be out and they would have known that for some time. It would not be Swans like to not tell us if a player was injured (sarcasm intended).

If a ruck has little competition at ball ups and throw ins they can direct the hit outs to their onballers. If they are needing to compete harder to get the hit out then they have less direction in their hit out and it is much easier for the onballers to shark their hit out.

Another concern is that Perth Stadium has a hard surface and is developing a reputation for causing injuries. It will not be great if at then of the day we add Aliir or Reid to our injury list.

[chammond]

We have problems in anumber of positions around the ground, but they are mostly attributable to inexperience and injuries, i.e. the same problems every team experiences from time to time.
The one area where we are unique is that we do not have the capacity to consistently kick a winning score, no matter how well our midfield/defence plays.
The Swans currently average 11 goals per game, but this is skewed by the input of Franklin, Dawson and Sinclair. If we take their contribution out, Sydney's average puts us level with the Suns. If we then adjust for Reid only contributing say 50% of his time in the forward 50, that puts us down to 8 goals a game. Then allow for the fact that opposition coaches are well aware that Papley is now our only consistent goalkicker, and our goal potential drops to . . . . . who knows???
The reason why this is such a problem for us is that we have no back-up goalkickers coming into replace our injuries/loss of form. Our midfield may step up against Fremantle, win the clearances, and also contribute half a dozen goals to get us over the line, but the smart money suggests we'll kick 7 or 8 goals, and lose by 20 odd points.
The four players coming in this week have just 7 career goals between them (Fox). My guess is that McLean will spend a fair amount of time in the forward 50, because he is one of the few players who can take a contested mark AND kick a goal from a set shot.

[AB Swannie]

Maybe Knoll is not up to it yet and would have embarrassed himself and the team.

Agree. Knoll would get smashed in the ruck and provide nothing else around the ground. You don’t just play your tallest player just like you don’t just play your fastest player. They have to provide a package.

[Blood Fever]

Agree 100%.

I am afraid that either Aliir and/or Reid will get a serious injury rucking that will impact not only this year but their pre season for next year. I recall when Goodes was rucking and injured his knee and Roos said he would never play him again in the ruck. Freo have some serious height around the ball and in their forward line which will certainly test our smaller defence.

Maybe Knoll is not up to it yet and would have embarrassed himself and the team.

[Swanny40519]

Knoll is the only fit big body on oiur list full stop. Aliir, Reid, McLean, Amartey, McCartin are a reasonable size but not up to Darcy and Lobb, lets forget Sandilands. The two big advantages of playing Knoll would have been to retain our structure and to not get too upset if our ruckman gets injured.

Agree 100%.

I am afraid that either Aliir and/or Reid will get a serious injury rucking that will impact not only this year but their pre season for next year. I recall when Goodes was rucking and injured his knee and Roos said he would never play him again in the ruck. Freo have some serious height around the ball and in their forward line which will certainly test our smaller defence.

[rb4x]

Knoll is the only fit big body on oiur list full stop. Aliir, Reid, McLean, Amartey, McCartin are a reasonable size but not up to Darcy and Lobb, lets forget Sandilands. The two big advantages of playing Knoll would have been to retain our structure and to not get too upset if our ruckman gets injured.

[Markwebbos]

If we were seriously still aiming for a top 8 position, I might approve what the MC has done and use Aliir primarily as a ruckman. But I'm on the wrong side of the fence and I think we're not going to make the finals and believe it's a mistake at this stage to select as if we still had a chance.

To use Liz's words, I would sacrifice Knoll - but not Amartey - for the sake of restoring structure while giving him a taste of the big league. If we are to be a force next year it's vital that we keep using Aliir and Sam primarily as we have been up to the point where we lost Sinkers; they can both do a bit of fill-in, as they have been doing while spending most of their time with backs or forwards.

I’m hoping McLean is going to spend significant time in the ruck. But it’s unlikely.

[dimelb]

If we were seriously still aiming for a top 8 position, I might approve what the MC has done and use Aliir primarily as a ruckman. But I'm on the wrong side of the fence and I think we're not going to make the finals and believe it's a mistake at this stage to select as if we still had a chance.

To use Liz's words, I would sacrifice Knoll - but not Amartey - for the sake of restoring structure while giving him a taste of the big league. If we are to be a force next year it's vital that we keep using Aliir and Sam primarily as we have been up to the point where we lost Sinkers; they can both do a bit of fill-in, as they have been doing while spending most of their time with backs or forwards.

[707]

At least McLean is a big body, just legally bodying their three rucks will somewhat negate silver service, then it's just up to the on ballers to shark Freo's taps. Leaving Aliir and Reid in place strengthens both ends of the ground. Freo's mids are no world beaters without Fyfe.

[liz]

Horse said after last week's defeat he'd like to go back to playing Aliir in defence and Reid up forward. I'm hoping he hasn't selected McLean as a replacement for Reid, but that they'll share the rucking duties.

There are lots of permutations: McCartin goes back and McLean takes his role and shares the ruck with Aliir. McLean plays back and rucks with Aliir etc.

This highlights the challenge that the match committee faces.

We are going to get smashed in the ruck contests. It's hard to think anyone selected will be able to get a hand on the ball opposed to Sandilands, and they'll struggle up against Lobb or Darcy as well. But the solution employed for the last two weeks has also made us less effective in defence because we haven't had Aliir down there, and less effective in the forward line because Reid has spent limited time there (leaving very young, and inexperienced key forwards to compete with seasoned AFL defenders). This week our defence is even more vulnerable because we've lost Dawson, who's been largely playing down back in recent weeks and, while not really a key defender, is strong overhead.

So do you "sacrifice" a Knoll or Amartey (or McLean) against rucks they have no chance against, just so some structure can be restored to defence and the forward line. Or do you continue to use Reid and Aliir, in the ruck role, knowing they have a bit more experience of how to protect themselves, and also in the hope they can provide something around the ground as mobile ruckmen.

It's not an easy decision for the coaches to make. I think throwing the 197cm Amartey or McLean into the ruck against the Freo ruck brigade would be unfair on them. Maybe somewhat less unfair (physically) on Knoll but still a big ask for him. I reckon the selections indicate that Aliir will continue to do most of the ruckwork and Reid will continue to relieve him. McCartin may well get pushed back for a week to cover Dawson's role. McLean has thus been brought in to provide a second target in the forward line, to work alongside Blakey. It was probably a toss up between he and Amartey. Amartey is probably more capable of the spectacular but McLean more solid at the basics.

[Markwebbos]

Horse said after last week's defeat he'd like to go back to playing Aliir in defence and Reid up forward. I'm hoping he hasn't selected McLean as a replacement for Reid, but that they'll share the rucking duties.

There are lots of permutations: McCartin goes back and McLean takes his role and shares the ruck with Aliir. McLean plays back and rucks with Aliir etc.

Whoever rucks is going to lose the hitouts to their three-headed beast, but it doesn't mean we can't do what the Bulldogs and Richmond do and shark their taps.

I reckon having Clarke in and Fyfe out gives us a chance of winning some clearances (Hewett should be more focused on winning the ball that stopping an opponent). Not sure why Joey was so down last week. Reckon Clarke goes to Brad Hill, Joey / Hewett goes head to head with Mundy. Wonder if they'll put Fox on Walters?

One thought about our drop off in form (aside from it coinciding with the loss of Buddy and a ruckman) is that we are an extremely young side, similar in age to the Gold Coast, and young sides tend to tire as the year goes on.

[Ralph Dawg]

Sorry, I was being facetious. There just seems to be many people suggesting that we are going to lose because the MC hasn’t picked Knoll or Amartey to ruck. Personally, I don’t think it matters who we pick for the ruck as we will be beaten here anyway. It is just a shame for Cameron that when his chance arises, he is also out injured. Any team who is playing their 4th choice ruck would be in trouble. However, especially with Fyfe out, we can still win or match clearances.

I am actually making the same point as you - the game is complicated and many areas for improvement. I am happy with the changes (apart from the forced ones) and am looking forward to seeing how Stoddart, in particular, goes.

My point is we're screwed in the ruck if you look at the raw numbers and also respective ruck experience. Agree Amartey or Knoll are not going to change that.
I also agree there are many facets to a game if footy and it will be interesting to see how a team goes when they completely dominate the tap. Personally I feel the effect of first tap is overstated, hence my pessimism as to how affective Naismith will be when he comes back, especially if his all round game doesn't improve.

[AB Swannie]

I think I've missed the point you're trying to make, but I don't think any defeat can ever be pinpointed to one single reason

Sorry, I was being facetious. There just seems to be many people suggesting that we are going to lose because the MC hasn’t picked Knoll or Amartey to ruck. Personally, I don’t think it matters who we pick for the ruck as we will be beaten here anyway. It is just a shame for Cameron that when his chance arises, he is also out injured. Any team who is playing their 4th choice ruck would be in trouble. However, especially with Fyfe out, we can still win or match clearances.

I am actually making the same point as you - the game is complicated and many areas for improvement. I am happy with the changes (apart from the forced ones) and am looking forward to seeing how Stoddart, in particular, goes.