Match Thread. Swans v Hawthorn

[mcs]

I was very proud of my favourite player, sam wicks. For the second week he ran the furthest. Despite being the only young player who has not yet had a break he absolutely cracked in with 9 contested possessions. Didn’t stop trying all day despite, heeney, papley and buddy deciding not to show up. The umpires did wicks absolutely no favours, yet he never gave up. Ended up suspended for a week for a stupid act of frustration, but the kid has real character. When he got flattened after marking the ball, he didn’t roll around on the ground like a flog. Give him a year or two and those shots he is pinging at goal will go through. I also think he will move into the midfield at age 23 and rip it up.

I like Wicks, but I fear his ceiling might be a bit lower then you hope. Even to have got as far as he had so far has been a really impressive effort. I hope he comes back refreshed from the bye + his little holiday refreshed and good to go - although wouldn't suprise me if he finds himself in ressies for a couple of weeks or so, depending on how we got against Port Whinealot.

Very happy (unlike some others on here ) to be very proven very wrong about my gut feeling however!

[TheBloods]

Considering the dregs we have given contracts to in recent times we'd be silly not to give one to Wicks , he will always be a fringe player imo as he doesnt have much going for him besides his pressure game but you still need fringe players to make a premiership list and hes been decent this yr

Mclean too but i think amartey has overtaken him

[Roadrunner]

Considering the dregs we have given contracts to in recent times we'd be silly not to give one to Wicks , he will always be a fringe player imo as he doesnt have much going for him besides his pressure game but you still need fringe players to make a premiership list and hes been decent this yr

Mclean too but i think amartey has overtaken him

Your language is derogatory TB and unnecessary. You can make the points you wish to make and still be respectful to our players. Every guy pulling on the Red and White shirt tries his best- sure, some may not prove good enough but don’t insult any of our players please.

[O'Reilly Boy]

Sorry not to have chimed in—I've been having trouble with my password and multiple devices.
I am a bit late to the party, but have been thinking a lot about what we saw on Friday night.
I sat, high in the O'Reilly Stand with my daughter, the 13 year fullback who was sporting her new Dane Rampe haircut.
I decided to watch Rowbottom very closely all night, and increasingly found myself moving towards our controversial friend's position. Now, it may be that he is playing to instructions, in which case the game plan involved him trying (usually not terribly successfully) to hold opponents out of centre bounces, arriving late to contests, standing a step and a half away, and, once the whistle blew, grimacing and bracing his hands on his knees. I was struck by how low energy he seemed, and his apparent reluctance, all night, to take the game on. I was also appalled by his disposals, and how easily his tackles were broken.
I then went back and looked at some of the footage of his game before being recruited, and saw a great deal of explosive energy and assertiveness.
Now, it may be fatigue, second season blues, or he may be a bit undersized, but I think that he is a shadow of the player in those highlight packages. And I realise that the stats offer a counterargument, as many here have pointed out. But I was disappointed by his game, and increasingly frustrated as the evening wore on. Horse rang the changes late (too late?) in the game, putting Ollie in the centre square (I thought he did okay, but again, seemed to have different riding orders—much more head over the ball), and then George, perhaps an acknowledgement that we were not getting enough out of the middle (I note that the stats suggested that we did well in clearances, but it certainly didn't feel like that at the ground—we did better in the first 15 minutes, before it dropped off and we started being slaughtered in the middle).
I remember years ago reading an interview with Ricky Ponting, who explained that in every moment of play, whether he was batting, fielding in the covers, whether or not he was directly involved in the play, he was seeking to impose his will on the game. That's the quality I saw missing in our boys across the field on Friday; the Hawks had that quality in abundance.
Such a disappointing missed opportunity to secure a position on the ladder, but probably a reasonable indication of where the team is.

[Nico]

OB, you mentioned he was trying to hold opponents at centre bounces. I have been a critic over a number of years of our poor centre clearance work. Over that time I had noticed we were more intent on holding and blocking opponents rather than make beeline for the footy. It has been much better this year but the last 2 games we have been slaughtered out of the centre, and old habits/techniques have resurfaced.

If you are trying to block you are not focused on the footy and that means a delay in contesting the ball. Also in the majority of centre ruck contests the ball falls at the feet of the ruckmen, yet our players seem to be nowhere near that space. I have noticed we are now setting up on the defensive side of the centre square and the ball is not going there. If Hickey is winning the contest or trying to take the ball from the air we should have at least one player on the offensive side.

[Ludwig]

I decided to watch Rowbottom very closely all night, and increasingly found myself moving towards our controversial friend's position. Now, it may be that he is playing to instructions, in which case the game plan involved him trying (usually not terribly successfully) to hold opponents out of centre bounces, arriving late to contests, standing a step and a half away, and, once the whistle blew, grimacing and bracing his hands on his knees. I was struck by how low energy he seemed, and his apparent reluctance, all night, to take the game on. I was also appalled by his disposals, and how easily his tackles were broken.
I then went back and looked at some of the footage of his game before being recruited, and saw a great deal of explosive energy and assertiveness.
Now, it may be fatigue, second season blues, or he may be a bit undersized, but I think that he is a shadow of the player in those highlight packages. And I realise that the stats offer a counterargument, as many here have pointed out. But I was disappointed by his game, and increasingly frustrated as the evening wore on.

I agree with you on Rowbottom's performance on Friday, but I find that patience is required when evaluating players and their long-term prospects. Usually a player can reach his best performance levels when fit and training well for a period of time. We should remember that RB had an early season injury and sometimes it can put a damper on the rest of the season, as the body is constantly trying to catch up for time lost in rehab. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a subpar season, but bounces back next year if all goes well in the lead up to the 2022 season.

Just for an example, and there are many more I could give, both Florent and Hayward have taken a lot of flack during their time at the Swans, but now are putting together solid performances week in, week out. They will have their bad games, but overall, if they can keep healthy, they should continue to improve and become consistent performers over the journey.

[TheBloods]

Sorry not to have chimed in—I've been having trouble with my password and multiple devices.
I am a bit late to the party, but have been thinking a lot about what we saw on Friday night.
I sat, high in the O'Reilly Stand with my daughter, the 13 year fullback who was sporting her new Dane Rampe haircut.
I decided to watch Rowbottom very closely all night, and increasingly found myself moving towards our controversial friend's position. Now, it may be that he is playing to instructions, in which case the game plan involved him trying (usually not terribly successfully) to hold opponents out of centre bounces, arriving late to contests, standing a step and a half away, and, once the whistle blew, grimacing and bracing his hands on his knees. I was struck by how low energy he seemed, and his apparent reluctance, all night, to take the game on. I was also appalled by his disposals, and how easily his tackles were broken.
I then went back and looked at some of the footage of his game before being recruited, and saw a great deal of explosive energy and assertiveness.
Now, it may be fatigue, second season blues, or he may be a bit undersized, but I think that he is a shadow of the player in those highlight packages. And I realise that the stats offer a counterargument, as many here have pointed out. But I was disappointed by his game, and increasingly frustrated as the evening wore on. Horse rang the changes late (too late?) in the game, putting Ollie in the centre square (I thought he did okay, but again, seemed to have different riding orders—much more head over the ball), and then George, perhaps an acknowledgement that we were not getting enough out of the middle (I note that the stats suggested that we did well in clearances, but it certainly didn't feel like that at the ground—we did better in the first 15 minutes, before it dropped off and we started being slaughtered in the middle).
I remember years ago reading an interview with Ricky Ponting, who explained that in every moment of play, whether he was batting, fielding in the covers, whether or not he was directly involved in the play, he was seeking to impose his will on the game. That's the quality I saw missing in our boys across the field on Friday; the Hawks had that quality in abundance.
Such a disappointing missed opportunity to secure a position on the ladder, but probably a reasonable indication of where the team is.

Some cant take the leap from junior talent to AFL star and theres no shame in that. He's an average player who can still have a role in the team if used correctly, hes a strong tackler and has good body work at times which would make him an excellent defender. Maybe he replaces Fox or Hewett. But we are lacking a spark in the midfield and we are kidding ourselves if we think he is it , give his midfield minutes to Chad and Florent instead, then Gulden, Stephens etc next year

By the way im glad someone else mentioned the constant hands on knees. It is not a good look when you are side by side with your opponent at a stoppage and you are hunched over sucking in the big ones looking like you would rather be anywhere else. Not lazy but a sign that you lack the competitiveness at the contest and hunger for the next ball to be thrown up. Have said his body language on field has stunk for ages now and been howled at, even someone on here who knows him personally said hes too passive

[KTigers]

I would have thought it is totally unrealistic to expect these young (first & second year) players to be able to play consistently high
(or even good) standard games week-in, week-out. This hasn't occurred at any club anywhere in the history of the game, so why
should it occur at the Sydney Swans in 2021? Look at our friends out west. Their crop of younger players go in and out of the team
like yo-yo's too. It's the same at all the clubs. It's almost impossible for 19 year olds and 20 year olds to rack up 15 touches a game
week-in, week-out.
Yep, some of them look spent at the moment. But if resting by putting your hands on your knees is an indicator that you've
had it, then someone should tell Luke Parker. It's nigh on impossible to get onto an AFL list and there are no "dregs" anywhere in
AFL level footy. All of these boys can play. It's just totally unrealistic to expect them to still be going deep into the last quarter like
a JPK or a Pendlebury or a Dangerfield.

[O'Reilly Boy]

I would have thought it is totally unrealistic to expect these young (first & second year) players to be able to play consistently high
(or even good) standard games week-in, week-out. This hasn't occurred at any club anywhere in the history of the game, so why
should it occur at the Sydney Swans in 2021? Look at our friends out west. Their crop of younger players go in and out of the team
like yo-yo's too. It's the same at all the clubs. It's almost impossible for 19 year olds and 20 year olds to rack up 15 touches a game
week-in, week-out.
Yep, some of them look spent at the moment. But if resting by putting your hands on your knees is an indicator that you've
had it, then someone should tell Luke Parker. It's nigh on impossible to get onto an AFL list and there are no "dregs" anywhere in
AFL level footy. All of these boys can play. It's just totally unrealistic to expect them to still be going deep into the last quarter like
a JPK or a Pendlebury or a Dangerfield.

Just to be really clear: I'm not jumping on the 'Rowbottom is average' bandwagon, and I take both Ludwig's and KTigers' points. But his game was poor, and I wonder about selection policies/practices. Certainly Florent and Hayward have benefitted from continuity of selection, an opportunity not extended to Stephens. Others stay in the team beyond a point of diminishing returns—Blakey and, I am now thinking, Rowbottom. But then again, I'm only seeing a partial picture, of course.

[i'm-uninformed2]

My curiousity on Rowbottom is not what sort of player he can become, which is very good; but how much the knee is bothering him still.

Last year, he showed a fairly dynamic element to his game, with not so much pure speed but both an ability to get up and down the ground, as well as being one of those rare players you see both accelerate into and out of contests.

A bit of that is absent right now, or at least he's not doing it consistently. Which makes me wonder how much training he's doing through the week, and how much the coaches have tailored his role for now to more of a defensive one to match any physical limitations.

It may just be a temporary thing and I'm far more confident that one or two notable exceptions about his long-term capacity to be part of a terrific midfield mix.

[Ludwig]

I wonder about selection policies/practices. Certainly Florent and Hayward have benefitted from continuity of selection, an opportunity not extended to Stephens. Others stay in the team beyond a point of diminishing returns—Blakey and, I am now thinking, Rowbottom. But then again, I'm only seeing a partial picture, of course.

I think this point about selection policy is the important one you make. I've been wondering about both selections and non selections many times when we have nearly a full list to choose from. It often seems that the choices are nether helping those selected nor those not selected.

I'm hesitant to question the selectors when they have so much more information regarding how particular players are going and what targets have been set for them regarding selection. That aside, some of the choices seem odd. The non selection of Brand, playing Heeney when he's injured, perhaps bringing back Fox too soon, and there is a case to answer for the handling of RB as well.

[O'Reilly Boy]

My curiousity on Rowbottom is not what sort of player he can become, which is very good; but how much the knee is bothering him still.

Last year, he showed a fairly dynamic element to his game, with not so much pure speed but both an ability to get up and down the ground, as well as being one of those rare players you see both accelerate into and out of contests.

A bit of that is absent right now, or at least he's not doing it consistently. Which makes me wonder how much training he's doing through the week, and how much the coaches have tailored his role for now to more of a defensive one to match any physical limitations.

It may just be a temporary thing and I'm far more confident that one or two notable exceptions about his long-term capacity to be part of a terrific midfield mix.

Good comments.
Unfortunately tailoring a defensive game doesn't really help if he's carrying an injury. He certainly was positioning defensively at centre bounces, initially holding off a player, and then moving back to 6 o'clock. When the mids are on song, this is the link position to move the ball laterally to a wing or HBF to take off; when the ball goes the other way, it commands the corridor. Unfortunately Hawthorn runners were able to take him on and either run straight over him, breaking the tackle, or fend him off. They seemed to be increasingly confident as the game progressed to simply run at him, which cannot be great for his confidence.