Are we contenders in 2012?

[Triple B]

Your comparing the 1995 Carlton premiership team that lost 2 games all season and the Bombers from 2000 who lost 1 solitary game in the last round of the season with the 2012 Swans??????

The question in this thread is are we contenders in 2012?

The simple answer on the evidence to date is no

One major difference is, both these sides had a functioning forward line...Along with all other serious contenders, for as long as I can remember.

Frog was commenting on the specific quote 'contenders don't lose to middle of the road teams' when he pointed out that 2 of the most dominant teams from a H&A perspective in the past 20 years both lost their only games to 'middle of the road sides' or worse.

In '95 we absolutely pumped Carlton on a Fri night at the SCG by 12 goals, inflicting their first loss of the season with Plugger giving Silvagni a nice old touch up. Great night and I was hoarse for days.

At no time did Frog say we are anywhere near their standard, just that good sides, even great sides, do get beaten occasionally when they are expected to win...

[Hartijon]

One major difference is, both these sides had a functioning forward line...Along with all other serious contenders, for as long as I can remember.

Spot on. Although it is a very even competition this year which makes it "Anybody's Flag" at this stage we don't have much hope with our current forward line to go deep into September. Three things make me pessimistic

1.The decision to make TDL the sub.......clueless!We are still not "getting it"
2. Playing an out of form KPP in the Forwards ....not helpful to winning a game and I find the excuse that an out of form player attracts a good defender to be the epitomy of negativity that gives the end result of losing games.

3.With the even competition ,if we don't play at our best anybody can beat us and the lack of enthusiasm is a real worry.What's wrong?

[ernie koala]

True, Ernie. I've been on the Hawks bandwagon since February. Now that's ground to a halt, I'm on the Pies'.

I'm jumping on the Eagles wagon....with an eye on the Bombers if they keep winning.....At this rate, we'll be a shoe in come september !

[ernie koala]

Carlton, 1995. Won 23 from 25 games to take minor premier. Beat Geelong in the final for the premiership.
Got beaten by Sydney and St Kilda in successive weeks (rounds 8 and 9). Sydney finished 1995 in 12th, St Kilda finished in 14th.

You can argue they were not middle of the road sides at the time. But it does happen (Essendon in 2000 - 24 from 25, lost to the Bulldogs is another, but that was only once in the season)

One major difference is, both these sides had a functioning forward line...Along with all other serious contenders, for as long as I can remember.

[ShockOfHair]

True, Ernie. I've been on the Hawks bandwagon since February. Now that's ground to a halt, I'm on the Pies'.

[ernie koala]

The phone poll on SEN this morning was "Who is the flag favourite at this stage of the season?" The results were 1. Essendon 2 West Coast 3. SYDNEY(!?) 4. Collingwood 5. Geelong. OK, which of you guys kept hitting the speed-dial?

I think people have finally twigged......Being flag favourite, particually this early in the season, is proving to be a liability.

[Dosser]

The phone poll on SEN this morning was "Who is the flag favourite at this stage of the season?" The results were 1. Essendon 2 West Coast 3. SYDNEY(!?) 4. Collingwood 5. Geelong. OK, which of you guys kept hitting the speed-dial?

[caj23]

Carlton, 1995. Won 23 from 25 games to take minor premier. Beat Geelong in the final for the premiership.
Got beaten by Sydney and St Kilda in successive weeks (rounds 8 and 9). Sydney finished 1995 in 12th, St Kilda finished in 14th.

You can argue they were not middle of the road sides at the time. But it does happen (Essendon in 2000 - 24 from 25, lost to the Bulldogs is another, but that was only once in the season)

Your comparing the 1995 Carlton premiership team that lost 2 games all season and the Bombers from 2000 who lost 1 solitary game in the last round of the season with the 2012 Swans??????

We are 6 and 3 after 9 rounds with losses to 2 teams who will probably finish between 8 - 12.

We have lost to 1 of the teams above us on the ladder and are yet to play the other 3. On present form we are likely to be 0 - 3 for those games.

The question in this thread is are we contenders in 2012?

The simple answer on the evidence to date is no

[Melbournehammer]

Regardless if we're a contender or not, premiership teams and those which go deep into September lose a few games that they're 'meant' to win. It happens just about every year, people have very short memories.

I am not so sure of that. The last few seasons have seen a series of virtually unbeatable teams. geelong, st kilda in their gf years, collingwood, hawthorn's back end of their flag season and so on. Teams which are at the top or are heading in that direction win against good teams and against middling teams. We are about where we are. A side which could finish anywhere from 5-12. We beat the sides we need to beat but lost agains tthe good sides. A revisit to this season will make people realise that the three decent wins (north, freo and hawthorn) have all been against sides which are about where we are.

Injuries have really hurt us this season in that they have been amongst our most critical players who have copped injury.

i think there should be more concern about the manner of our two melbourne losses. Both involved a fundamental inability to get the ball beyond centre wing. Both involved a defence which started to panic with the amount of ball that was coming in. And the long kick out to the 50 metre arc was picked off time and time again, as well as an inability to change direction because when players got the ball they knew they would just turn it over.

Marty m got caught twice with the ball - both times because he had nothing to kick to and decided to keep the ball in hand instead. it is either the structure or the coaching or (i think) both. Sucking the pacy types to the ball when under pressure means that the long kick out to the pack involves giving up possession simply too often, because our talls are unable to lock the ball into the pack on the wing.

[Plugger46]

Regardless if we're a contender or not, premiership teams and those which go deep into September lose a few games that they're 'meant' to win. It happens just about every year, people have very short memories.

[Frog]

No we are not

Contenders don't drop games against middle of the road sides, we've now done it twice in three weeks

Carlton, 1995. Won 23 from 25 games to take minor premier. Beat Geelong in the final for the premiership.
Got beaten by Sydney and St Kilda in successive weeks (rounds 8 and 9). Sydney finished 1995 in 12th, St Kilda finished in 14th.

You can argue they were not middle of the road sides at the time. But it does happen (Essendon in 2000 - 24 from 25, lost to the Bulldogs is another, but that was only once in the season)

[caj23]

No we are not

Contenders don't drop games against middle of the road sides, we've now done it twice in three weeks

[Wardy]

Wow we just made it onto Spuds coach killers on after the bounce!!!! It's gotta be bad to get a mention there.

[jono2707]

indeed, they are like relatives - they often do your head in, but you love them nonetheless and un conditionally.:-)

A few of mine would have been delisted a long time ago... :-)

[GongSwan]

indeed, they are like relatives - they often do your head in, but you love them nonetheless and un conditionally.:-)

Luckily I only see my relo's a few times a year, the Swans on the other hand.....